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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Apr 28, 2005 9:08am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

Depends on the player - I don't know of one that supports SHN, but there are some that will support FLAC. What are you using?

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Poster: Mr. Happy Date: Apr 28, 2005 9:21am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

Actually, I am in the process of buying one and wanted to start with the units that support shn or flac due to my large shn / flac collection. If there are none, what do you suggest would be the best method for converting the files.

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Poster: Brad Leblanc Date: Apr 28, 2005 9:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rio Karma? Anyone use one?

I have an iPod, but would never buy one again because I can't get Ogg or FLAC onto it. My recommendation - go with something that supports both of those formats (and use those formats). Rio Karma does, anyone ever use one of those?

This post was modified by Brad Leblanc on 2005-04-28 16:37:14

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Poster: Mr. Happy Date: Apr 28, 2005 9:39am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rio Karma? Anyone use one?

Thanks Brad.

How do you, or anyone else, suggest I convert my shn files to another format that supports mp3 players?

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Poster: quadforce Date: Apr 28, 2005 10:37am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rio Karma? Anyone use one?

I've been using the Rio Karma for about a month now. Overall, I think its a great player - good battery life, easy to navigate the menus, good sound quality and a nice manager software. It will pull both firmware and software updates via the web with an update util. The docking station has both RCA outs (so you can plug it in at home and listen) and an ethernet jack for moving music.

FLAC support seems to be very good - I have a number of Phish and Umphrey's shows loaded and haven't had any problems.

I would have liked more storage (40GB compared to 20), but for the price, I can't really complain. I think the ipod is way over priced and I don't like the way it manages music.

Give a good look at the Rio - it won't play your shorten files, but that is easy to get around.

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Poster: Captain Video Date: Apr 28, 2005 12:05pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rio Karma? Anyone use one?

Just a thought, db Power Amp will convert shn, flac or whatever to mp3....my friend calls it "the swiss army knife of audio".....Kev

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Poster: 1yen Date: Apr 28, 2005 1:10pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Rio Karma? Anyone use one?

Hey all,

I have had my Karma for about 1.5 years now, and it has been fantastic. For anyone that enjoys live music, the Karma is really the only player out there that makes sense...

1) plays mp3, wma, ogg, flac
2) GAPLESS...I think the karma is the only gapless player on the market...other players will put short gaps between tracks...which could mean silence during segues...Karma makes it seemles
3) great navigation and battery

I love it...it goes with me everywhere. I do wish they made a larger one, but there a plenty of hacks to squeeze in a 30 or 40gb hd in there (for the diy types)...

hope that helps...

peace

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Poster: NewyorkNewyork Date: Apr 29, 2005 2:16am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: MP3 player with Gapless feature

So, is this the only mp3 player known to everyone with the gapless feature on it?

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Poster: willfoy Date: Apr 29, 2005 12:44am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

You can also use something like the Neuros, which is extensible. I believe their series 2 units are out now, which support USB v2, with faster transfer speeds, larger drives, and support for FLAC, OGG, etc... Only bummer is no audible.com support, last I checked.

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Poster: xtifr Date: Apr 28, 2005 1:26pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

There are several that support flac (and ogg). There are none that support shorten, because shorten has a non-open-source no-commercial-use license. You might be able to find shorten support for a general-purpose programmable handheld device (like a PDA), but I think you will never see dedicated mp3 player with shorten support. This is one of several reasons why many of us are looking into a long-term migration to 100% flac, and dumping all use of shorten.

The Rio Karma (mentioned by several people) has had ogg and flac support for longer than any other player. However, the idea seems to be catching on, and, within the last 6-12 months, there has been a real explosion of players with ogg and flac support. I know the Karma is well-liked, but it's also maybe a little pricey. If you want to explore your options, some google-hunting might be justified.

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Poster: cwier60 Date: Apr 28, 2005 11:25pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

Another portable that plays both OGG & FLAC is the COWON iAUDIO M3. There's a link to their website as well as other equipment that supports FLAC at http://flac.sourceforge.net/links.html

I'd have to agree with others that said OGG support is more important than FLAC for a portable. I have no problem with the quality of 192k VBR MP3 on my Dell DJ, but I'd really love it if it would support OGG. I'd imagine a quick Google search for 'OGG VORBIS player' would help you find players that support open-source codecs.

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Poster: Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios Date: Apr 28, 2005 5:09pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

Man unless you only want to cary a minimal amount of music you'll store those lossless files away and use an mp3 conversion @ 160 kbs or 190 kbs by way of i-tunes or something else to your likeing.You will be able to carry at least twice as much music and probably more no matter what player you buy.
If you use a quality mp3 codec like Fraunhofer or even Itunes over 160kbps you will get a cd quality not near cd quality recording.Anyone who tells you different needs a course in psychoacoustics.
Cheers,
Jimi Justin
Holy Grail Studios

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Poster: 1yen Date: Apr 29, 2005 2:27am
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

agreed...ogg is really the ideal format for a 20gb player (and it is designed for gapless playback). I worked in audio compression for 2.5 years, and have taken a course in psychoacoustics, and believe me, 160kbps is NOT cd quality.

As for cost, karma's have gotten really cheap. Like under $180! The flipside to that is Rio has discontinued it, so firmware support might be no more...rumors of a next gen karma are floating around, that player should be great.

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Poster: xtifr Date: Apr 28, 2005 7:38pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

I think a good lossless format is the best choice for a portable, yes, but I strongly prefer ogg, not mp3, as the quality is higher AND the size is lower. (And yes, when I do encode to mp3, which I only do for close friends, I use LAME which is based on Fraunhofer code.)

However, first of all, while psychoacoustic modeling is nifty keen and all that (and, btw, ogg uses a far superior psychoacoustic model than mp3 does), it's not the whole story. We don't actually know everything about how the ear or brain works. The only reliable test is a true double-blind listening test. The main place doing that that I know of is http://www.hydrogenaudio.org - and if you go there, I think you'll find that they do not agree with your claim that 160kbps mp3s are CD-quality. People who do not know what they're listening to can tell the difference. Though, I admit, not always.

However, back to the original point, while I consider ogg support to be an absolute requirement, I do agree that flac support is not so important. Still, sometimes it's handy to have the option to just dump a recently downloaded flac show into the box when you're only going to be away from the computer for a little while. Having flac support on a portable is a very nice option, even if it's not something you'd want to take advantage of all the time.

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Poster: Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios Date: Apr 29, 2005 2:20pm
Forum: etree Subject: Re: Portable MP3 players - loading shn or flac files

Xtifr,
I had no intention of starting a debate here.I was only telling someone how I do it.
However, I agree double blind is the best case study and it's been done a 1000x or more in every pro audio journal around and every engineer you have ever heard of will tell you the same as me.
I have perfect pitch and have held down the board in every major studio in the U.S. and I can not tell the difference between a 190 mp3 done with Fraunhofer or itunes on a set of $10K reference monitors and surely not on a mp3 player.Nor can any of the engineers or producers that I work with on a daily basis.This is not even debatable in the world of pro audio recording.The only place I ever hear this argument is when I take the time to read message board posts by collectors.If you can really hear the difference then I would suggest switching codecs which is the only conclusion I can come to.If you still don't think they are up to par then maybe you should consider buying some studio gear and putting the rest of us out of biz because you certainly havee better ears than me or anybody I have worked with in the last 20 yrs.

Cheers,
Jimi Justin
Holy Grail Studios

P.S.I said over 160 not @ 160. check out what my buddy David Miles Huber has to say on this subject in Modern Recording Techniques by Focal Press.

This post was modified by Jimi @ Holy Grail Studios on 2005-04-29 21:20:44